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  • #42208

    tartiflette74
    Teilnehmer

    The tagmapping file only handles these values for the „sport“ key: golf, shooting, soccer, swimming, tennis, climbing. Would it be possible to handle some other outdoor sports? Like these ones:
    archery
    biathlon
    canoe
    cliff_diving
    climbing_adventure
    free_flying
    horse_racing
    ice_skating
    karting
    kitesurfing
    miniature_golf
    model_aerodrome
    motocross
    parachuting
    roller_skating
    rowing
    sailing
    scuba_diving
    skateboard
    ski_jumping
    surfing
    swimming
    wakeboarding
    water_ski

    Also, I can render this climbing spot with the following rules:

    <rule e="any" k="sport" v="*" zoom-min="13">
    	<rule e="any" k="sport" v="climbing">
    		<symbol src="file:/SYMBOLS/climbing.png" symbol-height="25"/>
    	</rule>
    </rule>

    But I can’t render it if I enclose the previous rule into this one:
    <rule e="any" k="leisure|landuse|club|amenity" v="*" zoom-min="13"> ... </rule>
    Nor into this simplified one:
    <rule e="node" k="leisure" v="pitch" zoom-min="13"> ... </rule>
    Is this a problem with my rules? Or is there an issue with leisure=pitch for nodes in the map file?
    Thanks!

    #42219
    Tobias
    Tobias
    Moderator

    The tagmapping file only handles these values for the “sport” key: golf, shooting, soccer, swimming, tennis, climbing. Would it be possible to handle some other outdoor sports?

    As OpenAndroMaps are mainly hiking and cycling maps, we only add additional tags that make sense in that context. There are some legacy tags that come from the original mapsforge tag-mapping (like some of those sport tags) that are don’t fall under this rule. So of this large list, what would make sense for a hiker/cyclist?
    BTW; we have a feature freeze at the moment because of a lot of work in the background.

    Is this a problem with my rules? Or is there an issue with leisure=pitch for nodes in the map file?

    leisure=pitch is only contained for ways not nodes (see latest tag-mapping).

    Developer of Elevate mapstyle

    #42221

    tartiflette74
    Teilnehmer

    What is really great with multiple theme files, and with the layer menu inside a theme, is that the final user can choose himself what he wants to see or not. So maybe the maps could embed a little more data for various outdoor activities, while the theme remains focused on hiking and cycling. It is far more easy to produce theme files for other sports than to produce maps!
    Anyway, I think that some of these sports are of interest to cyclers and hikers, at least as points of interest to watch.
    Thanks!

    #42223
    Tobias
    Tobias
    Moderator

    What is really great with multiple theme files, and with the layer menu inside a theme, is that the final user can choose himself what he wants to see or not. So maybe the maps could embed a little more data for various outdoor activities, while the theme remains focused on hiking and cycling. It is far more easy to produce theme files for other sports than to produce maps!

    I see your point, but there are several issues:
    – Where do you draw the line? Every other topic makes the map files larger, and everyone thinks something else would be nice to add. It’s not just some POIs, there are lots of other data people would be interested – horse riding, watersports, public transport etc.
    – All this data has to be analyzed (not just the wiki, also taginfo, forums, discussions…) preprocessed etc.; even again when things change over time in OSM
    – There has to be someone who creates, maintains and supports a theme which shows this data
    – Limits and bugs of mapsforge maps are also something to have in mind, like the 15-tag-per-item limit, or the common value bug
    – Our time ressources are limited, and everyone here does this in their free time, without getting any money of it

    So that’s why it’s good practice to stick to the main contents OpenAndroMaps are made for, and be good at that, and not trying to do everything.

    Anyway, I think that some of these sports are of interest to cyclers and hikers, at least as points of interest to watch.

    So my question again: of this large list, what would make sense for a hiker/cyclist?

    Developer of Elevate mapstyle

    1 Teilnehmer(n) gefällt dieser Beitrag
    #42262

    tartiflette74
    Teilnehmer

    I am conscious of the time and resources required to produce, maintain and host those maps, but this work can benefit to a lot of people, beyond pure cyclists and hikers.
    Of course specialized maps should (and certainly are) created for completely different usages: public transport, car driving, shopping, cultural activities etc. But I think a single map (with potentially multiple themes) should be able to suit most general public outdoor activities, from sightseeing to nature sports.
    I’m currently refining the OutdoorV4 theme for my personal usage, and would be happy to either merge it with the original one, or maintain a different branch, once finished.
    So, apart from technical limitations, I would think that it is preferable to avoid removing well known tags related to outdoor activities (such as horse access, or maybe swim or canoe access for rivers etc). I don’t think this would make maps significantly larger, or costly to generate?

    So my question again: of this large list, what would make sense for a hiker/cyclist?

    I would think that unmotorized sports that can be practiced individually without any infrastructure are especially worthwhile to include; e.g.:
    swimming
    cliff_diving
    scuba_diving (seems to include snorkeling)
    canoe
    sailing
    kitesurfing
    windsurfing
    surfing
    roller_skating
    skateboard
    free_flying
    model_aerodrome

    #42276
    Tobias
    Tobias
    Moderator

    But I think a single map (with potentially multiple themes) should be able to suit most general public outdoor activities, from sightseeing to nature sports.

    Sorry, but that’s not our purpose, as I wrote above. I also have different tags I would like to see in the maps which don’t really fit the purpose, so I don’t think about adding them either.

    I would think that it is preferable to avoid removing well known tags related to outdoor activities (such as horse access, or maybe swim or canoe access for rivers etc).

    Tags aren’t removed, in mapsforge they have to be ADDED in tag-mapping. And if they aren’t properly analyzed and preprocessed like the not properly supported winter tags, you see what can happen here:
    https://www.openandromaps.org/oam-forums/topic/highwaypath-pistetypenordic-associated-to-routepiste-pistetypenordic

    I don’t think this would make maps significantly larger, or costly to generate?

    They are large and costly enough – as more and more of the already supported tags are mapped in OSM over time, they are getting larger without adding new tags, and some msps are already on the limit what can be done. Christian already had to change processes because some maps couldn’t be created anymore like before.

    I would think that unmotorized sports that can be practiced individually without any infrastructure are especially worthwhile to include

    For me that’s far too much; it seems to me you didn’t take the hiking/cycling focus seriously ;-)
    I would say only sports that either don’t really require additional gear (only what is common to be carried when hiking/cycling) or are likely to be combined with hiking/cycling should make the list. I wouldn’t include any boating, as these would require much more additional tags.
    That would condense the list to (swimming is already included):
    cliff_diving
    free_flying
    climbing_adventure

    Maybe:
    roller_skating
    skateboard
    miniature_golf

    Best regards,
    Tobias

    Developer of Elevate mapstyle

    #42278

    tartiflette74
    Teilnehmer

    Thanks; I understand these technical, resources, size or time limitations. As for analysis for proper tag mapping, and theme support, I would be happy to help. OAM maps are way better than any other OSM based maps I am aware of, especially with high precision contour lines and hill shading!
    Thanks!

    #42303
    Tobias
    Tobias
    Moderator

    As for analysis for proper tag mapping, and theme support, I would be happy to help.

    I see that you’re already discussing the route problem for piste:type=nordic in the other thread; this is an area where proper tag analyzing and processing hasn’t been done completely, as neither Christian nor I had the ressources and can’t really support it. Best thing it would be to discuss it with Peter47 who has been continously forking Elevate for winter usage:
    https://www.openandromaps.org/oam-forums/topic/elevate-winter-fork/page/17
    Still we got the feature freeze mentioned above.

    OAM maps are way better than any other OSM based maps I am aware of, especially with high precision contour lines and hill shading!

    Thanks, I appreciate it – but hill shading is made by the apps, not OAM :-)

    Developer of Elevate mapstyle

    #42786
    Tobias
    Tobias
    Moderator

    That would condense the list to (swimming is already included):
    cliff_diving
    free_flying
    climbing_adventure

    Maybe:
    roller_skating
    skateboard
    miniature_golf

    Those are now included in the maps, thanks to Christian!
    While working on adding these to Elevate, I found some more tags for equivalents/tagtransforms:
    sport=miniature_golf <-leisure=miniature_golf, sport=minigolf sport=skateboard <-leisure=skatepark, leisure=skate_park

    Developer of Elevate mapstyle

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